AshrafGhani_讨论如何重建破败的阿富汗国家【中英文对照】

1.A public, Dewey long ago observed, is constituted through discussion and debate.
“共和”概念,正如美国哲学家杜威很久之前所观察到的, 通过辩论和讨论而成。
2.If we are to call the tyranny of assumptions into question, and avoid doxa, the realm of the unquestioned, then we must be willing to subject our own assumptions
如果我们质疑暴政的假想, 避免不经推敲的教条, 那么我们必须愿意把自己的假想
3.to debate and discussion.
进行讨论辨伪。
4.It is in this spirit that I join into a discussion of one of the critical issues of our time, namely, how to mobilize different forms of capital
正是秉着这种精神我才来此参与讨论 这个我们时代的关键议题, 即如何调动各式各样的资本
5.for the project of state building.
为国家重建服务。
6.To put the assumptions very clearly, capitalism, after 150 years, has become acceptable, and so has democracy.
首先明晰我们的假设, 资本主义经过150年的发展已被广为接受, 民主亦然。
7.If we looked in the world of 1945 and looked at the map of capitalist economies and democratic polities, they were the rare exception, not the norm.
如果我们回看1945年的世界, 并且查看当时资本主义经济体系及民主政治版图, 它们只是少数,并非主流。
8.The question now, however, is both about which form of capitalism and which type of democratic participation.
然而目前的问题是, 选择何种资本主义体制 及何种民主参与机制。
9.But we must acknowledge that this moment has brought about a rare consensus of assumptions.
但我们必须承认 此刻要唤起 宝贵的共识达成一致。
10.And that provides the ground for a type of action, because consensus of each moment allows us to act.
及提供基础 以促成一种行动, 因为每个时刻的共识 能让我们共同行动。
11.And it is necessary, no matter how fragile or how provisional our consensus, to be able to move forward.
而且这是必须的,不管 我们的共识如何脆弱或短暂, 共识能让我们前进。
12.But the majority of the world neither benefits from capitalism nor from democratic systems.
但是世界大部分地区 既没有从资本主义体系获利 也没有从民主体系里获利。
13.Most of the globe experiences the state as repressive, as an organization that is concerned about denial of rights, about denial of justice,
全球大部分国家的经历 都是认为美国是压抑性的 作为一种 关注拒绝权利 否认正义的组织,
14.rather than provision of it.
而不是提供权利和正义的机构。
15.And in terms of experience of capitalism, there are two aspects that the rest of the globe experiences.
从资本主义发展历程来看, 其全球经验 主要有两方面,
16.First, extractive industry.
首先是资源采掘
17.Blood diamonds, smuggled emeralds, timber, that is cut right from under the poorest.
血钻,宝石走私, 木材, 从穷国掠夺财富。
18.Second is technical assistance.
其次是技术援助。
19.And technical assistance might shock you, but it’s the worst form of — today — of the ugly face of the developed world to the developing countries.
技术援助和你想的不一样, 但它是当今最差劲的形式, 它表现出了发达国家对发展中国家 丑陋的面孔。
20.Tens of billions of dollars are supposedly spent on building capacity with people who are paid up to 1,500 dollars a day, who are incapable
想象一下上百亿美元 被一些人投入能力建设 他们每天最高得到1500美元, 却不能
21.of thinking creatively, or organically.
创造性地 独立地思考。
22.Next assumption — and of course the events of July 7, I express my deep sympathy, and before that, September 11 — have reminded us
其次,当然我对 6月7日的事件 深表同情,还有911, 这些都提醒我们
23.we do not live in three different worlds.
我们不是生活在三个不同的世界,
24.We live in one world.
而是一个。
25.But that’s easily said.
简单点儿说
26.But we are not dealing with the implications of the one world that we are living in.
我们并不是在和 我们所生活的世界的含义打交道。
27.And that is, that if we want to have one world, this one world cannot be based on huge pockets of exclusion, and then inclusion for some.
也就是说,如果我们想要拥有一个世界, 这个世界是不能建立在 先有巨大的排斥, 然后再对其中一些进行包容之上的。
28.We must now finally come to think about the premises of a truly global world, in relationship to the regime of rights and responsibilities and accountabilities
我们现在终于必须来思考一下 一个真正的全球型世界 的前提是什么, 与权力政权和 责任感和可靠性之间的关系
29.that are truly global in scope.
在全球维度内是怎样的。
30.Otherwise we will be missing this open moment in history, where we have a consensus on both the form of politics and the form of economics.
否则我们将会 丢失这个历史上的开放时刻, 一个我们在政治 和经济的形式 达成共识的时刻。
31.What is one of these organizations to pick?
这三个组织中该选哪一个呢?
32.We have three critical terms: economy, civil society and the state.
我们有3个很关键的术语: 经济, 公民社会 和国家。
33.I will not deal with those first two, except to say that uncritical transfer of assumptions, from one context to another, can only make for disaster.
我并不涉及前两个,只能说 不加批判的对假设的转移 从一个语境到另一个语境之下, 只可能酿成灾难。
34.Economics taught in most of the elite universities are practically useless in my context.
经济学, 在最多的精英大学里都有课程 但这在我的语境中可以说是完全没有用的。
35.My country is dominated by drug economy and a mafia.
我的国家 被毒品经济和黑手党所操控
36.Textbook economics does not work in my context, and I have very few recommendations from anybody as to how to put together a legal economy.
书本上的经济学并不能 在我的语境中发挥作用, 而且我几乎得不到任何建议。
37.The poverty of our knowledge must become the first basis of moving forward, and not imposition of the framework that works on the basis of mathematical modeling,
我们知识的贫穷 必将成为前进的 第一块基石。 而不是作用于数学模型基础上的 框架,
38.for which I have enormous respect.
当然,我对此还是深怀敬意的。
39.My colleagues at Johns Hopkins were among the best.
我的在约翰霍普金斯的同事是最好的。
40.Second, instead of debating endlessly about what is the structure of the state, why don’t we simplify and say, what are a series of functions
第二, 不要再无止境地去辩论 一个国家的结构是什么样的, 我们为什么不能将其简化, 而去讨论一个国家21世纪
41.that the state in the 21st century must perform?
必须具备的一系列功能是什么?
42.Clare Lockhart and I are writing a book on this, we hope to share that much widely with — and third is that we could actually construct an index
克莱尔 洛克哈特和我正在就此写一本书 我们希望能彼此之间能够有更多的沟通与分享。 第三,我们实际上可以建立一个指数,
43.to measure comparatively how well these functions that we would agree on are being performed in different places.
来测量 相比较之下,这些功能发挥得怎么样,是否令我们满意, 并且能推广到其他的地方。
44.So what are these functions?
那么这些功能是什么呢?
45.We propose 10.
我们来举10个例子。
46.And it’s legitimate monopoly of means of violence, administrative control, management of public finances, investment in human capital, provision of citizenship rights,
它们是:对暴力途径的合法化的垄断, 行政控制,公共财政管理 人力资金投资,民权保障
47.provision of infrastructure, management of the tangible and intangible assets of the state through regulation, creation of the market,
基础设施建设, 通过调控进行对国家有形与无形资产管理, 市场的创造,
48.and national agreements — including public borrowing — and then most importantly, rule of law.
国际合约 — 包括公共借贷 — 还有最重要的是,法律规范。
49.I won’t elaborate.
我不会进一步阐述。
50.I hope the questions will give me an opportunity.
我希望这些问题可以给予我一个机会。
51.This is a feasible goal, basically because, contrary to widespread assumption, I would argue that we know how to do this.
这是一个切实的目标, 因为与广泛的假设相反 我不认为我们知道该如何处理这件事。
52.Who would have imagined that Germany would be either united or democratic today, if you looked at it from the perspective of Oxford of 1943?
谁能想到德国 今天会变成联合或者民主的, 如果你从1943年的牛津的视角去看这个问题的话。
53.But people at Oxford prepared for a democratic Germany and engaged in planning.
但是牛津的人民为一个民主德国做好了准备, 并积极计划着。
54.And there are lots of other examples.
还有很多其他的例子。
55.Now in order to do this — and this brings this group — we have to rethink the notion of capital.
现在,为了做这件事, 我们必须重新思考资本的定义。
56.The least important form of capital, in this project, is financial capital — money.
最微不足道的一种资本形式是, 是财经资本 — 金钱。
57.Money is not capital in most of the developing countries.
金钱在众多发展中国家中不都不能算作是资本。
58.It’s just cash.
它只是现金。
59.Because it lacks the institutional, organizational, managerial forms to turn it into capital.
因为它缺乏机制的, 组织的,管理的形式, 来将它转变为资本。
60.And what is required is a combination of physical capital, institutional capital, human capital — and security, of course, is critical,
而且它所需要的是 物理资本 与体制资本,人力资本的结合。 当然,安全性是至关重要的,
61.but so is information.
信息也是。
62.Now, the issue that should concern us here — and that’s the challenge that I would like to pose to this group — is again, it takes 16 years
现在,我们应该担忧的问题, 同时也是我希望给您们这群人 带来的挑战是 你们国家需要16年
63.in your countries to produce somebody with a BS degree.
来培养一个 有学士学历的人。
64.It takes 20 years to produce somebody with a PhD.
20年来培养一个 有博士学位的人
65.The first challenge is to rethink, fundamentally, the issue of the time.
第一个挑战是要 从基本上进行重新思考 当代的问题。
66.Do we need to repeat the modalities that we have inherited?
我们需要重复 我们所继承的方式吗?
67.Our educational systems are inherited from the 19th century.
我们的教育系统是自19世纪传承而来的。
68.What is it that we need to do fundamentally to re-engage in a project, that capital formation is rapid?
为了从根本上重新投入到一个项目中, 什么是我们需要的呢, 在这个资本形成如此之快的当下?
69.The absolute majority of the world’s population are below 20, and they are growing larger and faster.
世界上的绝大多数人 都在20岁以下,而且他们正在变得 更多,成长得更快。
70.They need different ways of being approached.
他们需要不同的方式 不同的对待的方式。
71.Different ways of being enfranchised.
不同的享有权利的方式。
72.Different ways of being skilled.
不同的被训练的方式。
73.And that’s the first thing.
这是首要的。
74.Second is, you’re problem solvers, but you’re not engaging your global responsibility.
第二,你们是问题的解决者, 但是你们没有尽到你们的全球性责任。
75.You’ve stayed away from the problems of corruption.
你们已经远离了 腐败问题。
76.You only want clean environments in which to function.
你们只想看到干净的环境。
77.But if you don’t think through the problems of corruption, who will?
但是你们没有彻底看透腐败的问题, 谁还能呢?
78.You stay away from design for development.
你们避免为发展做规划。
79.You’re great designers, but your designs are selfish.
你们是伟大的设计师, 但是你们的设计是自私的。
80.It’s for your own immediate use.
只是为了你们自己即时的用处。
81.The world in which I operate operates with designs regarding roads, or dams, or provision of electricity that have not been revisited in 60 years.
在我的世界,我与 那些道路、 堤坝、或者电力供应 的设计打交道, 这些设计已经有60年没有被重温了。
82.This is not right. It requires thinking.
这是不正确。需要我们来思考一下。
83.But particularly, what we need more than anything else  from this group is your imagination to be brought to bear on problems the way a meme is supposed to work.
更重要的是, 我们最需要的 是你们的想象力, 用想象力来解决问题 这是米姆本应产生作用的方式。
84.As the work on paradigms, long time ago showed — Thomas Kuhn’s work — it’s in the intersection of ideas that new developments — true breakthroughs — occur.
而就范式的作用来说,在很久以前, 托马斯-坤的工作, 他的工作是 概念的内部分工中, 新的发展出现。
85.And I hope that this group would be able to deal with the issue of state and development and the empowerment of the majority of the world’s poor,
我希望这个组织,通过这些方式 可以有能力处理关于政府和国家的问题 以及给予这个世界占大多数的穷人
86.through this means.
以权力。
87.Thank you.
谢谢。
88.(Applause) Chris Anderson: So, Ashraf, until recently, you were the finance minister of Afghanistan, a country right at the middle of much of the world’s agenda.
(鼓掌) 克里斯 安德森:“那么,Ashraf先生,直到最近, 你一直是阿富汗的财政部长, 这是一个处在世界事务 中心的国家。
89.Is the country gonna make it?
这个国家真的能够完成(你所说的那些)吗?
90.Will democracy flourish? What scares you most?
民主可否繁荣?什么使你最为生畏?
91.Ashraf Ghani: What scares me most is — is you, lack of your engagement.
Ashraf Ghani:“最令我害怕的,是你们, 是缺乏你们的积极参与。”
92.(Laughter) You asked me. You know I always give the unconventional answer.
(笑声) 你问了我。你知道我总是给出一些非传统的答案。
93.No. But seriously, the issue of Afghanistan first has to be seen as, at least, a 10 to 20-year perspective.
不。但是说真的, 阿富汗的问题 必须首先被视作 一个至少10到20年的视角。
94.Today the world of globalization is on speed.
今天,全球化 在加速。
95.Time has been compressed.
时间已经被压缩了。
96.And space does not exist for most people.
空间对于大多数人来说也已不再存在。
97.But in my world  — you know, when I went back to Afghanistan after 23 years, space had expanded.
但是在我的世界里, 你要知道,当我23年之后回到阿富汗的时候, 空间已经扩大了。
98.Every conceivable form of infrastructure had broken down.
所有可感知的社会基础设施被毁坏了。

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