ShekharKapur_我们都只是讲给自己的故事【中英文对照】

1.So, I was just asked to go and shoot this film called “Elizabeth.”
其实，我当时只打算拍《伊丽莎白》。
2.And we’re all talking about this great English icon and saying, “She’s a fantastic woman, she does everything.
所以我们全都在谈论着这位伟大的英国人物， “她是个了不起的女人。她无所不能。
3.How are we going to introduce her?”
可是，她该怎样出场？”
4.So we went around the table with the studio and the producers and the writer, and they came to me and said, “Shekhar, what do you think?”
公司、制片人、编剧谈了又谈， 然后他们来找我：“谢加，你有什么想法？”
5.And I said, “I think she’s dancing.”
“我想她会跳舞。”
6.And I could see everybody looked at me, somebody said, “Bollywood.”
于是在场所有人都看着我， “宝来坞。”有人说。
7.The other said, “How much did we hire him for?”
还有人说：“这家伙花了我们多少钱？”
8.And the third said, “Let’s find another director.”
或是：“我们真该换个导演。”
9.I thought I had better change.
当时我想，我可能确实需要些改变。
10.So we had a lot of discussion on how to introduce Elizabeth, and I said, “OK, maybe I am too Bollywood.
于是我们又讨论了很久伊丽莎白的出场。 我说：“可能我确实太过宝来坞。
11.Maybe Elizabeth, this great icon, dancing?
可是，伊丽莎白，这位伟大的人物，的确也跳舞？“
12.What are you talking about?”
”你在说什么？！“
13.So I rethought the whole thing, and then we all came to a consensus.
于是我不得不再次从头开始。 最后，我们终于达成共识。
14.And here was the introduction of this great British icon called “Elizabeth.”
电影中，这位伟大的英国女人，伊丽莎白， 是这样出场的：
15.Leicester: May I join you, my lady?
雷彻思特：”可以和您跳舞吗，我尊贵的夫人？“
16.Elizabeth: If it please you, sir.
伊丽莎白：”非常乐意，先生。“
17.(Music) Shekhar Kapur: So she was dancing.
(音乐) ”所以，最后，她就是跳着舞出场。“
18.So how many people who saw the film did not get that here was a woman in love, that she was completely innocent and saw great joy in her life, and she was youthful?
看过电影，观众们可以感觉 ”嘿，这是个恋爱中的女人。“ 她是完完全全纯真的， 趁着年轻，享受人生的快乐。
19.And how many of you did not get that?
你们应该看到，
20.That’s the power of visual storytelling, that’s the power of dance, that’s the power of music: the power of not knowing.
这就是通过图像来讲故事的力量。 也是音乐和舞蹈的力量。 是”无知“的力量。
21.When I go out to direct a film, every day we prepare too much, we think too much.
导演电影时， 我们总是想得太多，准备得太多。
22.Knowledge becomes a weight upon wisdom.
我们的知识成为负担，使我们失去智慧。
23.You know, simple words lost in the quicksand of experience.
在经验增长的同时， 我们却丢失了简单的语言。
24.So I come up, and I say, “What am I going to do today?” I’m not going to do what I planned to do, and I put myself into absolute panic.
于是我问自己： ”今天你要做什么？“我不打算再按计划行事， 我让自己处于绝对的惊恐焦虑中。
25.It’s my one way of getting rid of my mind, getting rid of this mind that says, “Hey, you know what you’re doing. You know exactly what you’re doing.
这就是我逃离”理智“的方法。 它总是说：”嘿， 你知道你在做什么。当了这么多年导演之后，
26.You’re a director, you’ve done it for years.”
你完完全全掌控着一切。“
27.So I’ve got to get there and be in complete panic.
摆脱这个声音后， 我感到的是彻底的惊恐焦虑。
28.It’s a symbolic gesture. I tear up the script, I go and I panic myself, I get scared.
我撕掉剧本， 陷入惊恐中。我感到害怕。
29.I’m doing it right now; you can watch me. I’m getting nervous, I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what I’m doing, I don’t want to go there.
正如我现在做的这样。你们可以看出来，我很紧张。 不知道说什么，不知道做什么，我害怕这样。
30.And as I go there, of course, my A.D. says, “You know what you’re going to do, sir.” I say, “Of course I do.”
当我这样时，助理导演说： ”先生，您知道自己在做什么。“我回答：“当然。”
31.And the studio executives, they would say, “Hey, look at Shekhar. He’s so prepared.”
片场的人们会说： “嘿，看谢加。一看就知已经做足准备。”
32.And inside I’ve just been listening to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan because he’s chaotic.
其实我刚刚还在听Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan， 只因为他的歌一片混乱。
33.I’m allowing myself to go into chaos because out of chaos, I’m hoping some moments of truth will come.
我就是要自己进入混乱无章的状态。 因为只有在混乱之中，我们才能期待真理的到来。
34.All preparation is preparation.
所谓准备其实也就只是准备。
35.I don’t even know if it’s honest.
我甚至不知道它是不是真的存在，
36.I don’t even know if it’s truthful.
是不是值得信任。
37.The truth of it all comes on the moment, organically, and if you get five great moments of great, organic stuff in your storytelling, in your film,
真理只在瞬间降临。 如果在你的电影里，在你的故事里， 你能够有五个这样的瞬间， 可以创作出了不起的东西，
38.your film, audiences will get it.
你的观众会感觉到。
39.So I’m looking for those moments, and I’m standing there and saying, “I don’t know what to say.”
当时我就是在寻找这样的瞬间。于是我站在这里，说： “我不知道该说什么。”
40.So, ultimately, everybody’s looking at you, 200 people at seven in the morning who got there at quarter to seven, and you arrived at seven,
于是所有人都盯着你， 早晨7点，200人盯着你。 他们15分钟前就到了。你是七点到的。
41.and everybody’s saying, “Hey. What’s the first thing? What’s going to happen?”
所有人都在问： “嘿！先做什么？这里发生了什么？”
42.And you put yourself into a state of panic where you don’t know, and so you don’t know.
而你只是把自己陷入到惊恐焦虑中。 那里，你什么都不知道。
43.And so, because you don’t know, you’re praying to the universe because you’re praying to the universe that something — I’m going to try and access the universe
正因为你什么都不知道， 你开始向宇宙祈求， 你开始试着与宇宙连接，
44.the way Einstein — say a prayer — accessed his equations, the same source. I’m looking for the same source because creativity comes from absolutely the same source
就是用爱因斯坦当年用的方法。 他就是用这方法连接了宇宙，看到了他的方程。 于是，我正在向同一个源泉祈求。 因为所有的创造力都来源于那一个地方。
45.that you meditate somewhere outside yourself, outside the universe.
你必须在你自己本身之外， 宇宙之外去探求、去冥想。
46.You’re looking for something that comes and hits you.
你期待有一样东西会降临，会打动你。
47.Until that hits you, you’re not going to do the first shot.
而且除非那样东西降临，你都决不会开机。
48.So what do you do?
现在，你该做什么？
49.So Cate says, “Shekhar, what do you want me to do?”
凯特问：“谢卡，你想让我做什么？”
50.And I say, “Cate, what do you want to do?” (Laughter) “You’re a great actor, and I like to give to my actors — why don’t you show me what you want to do?”
我回答：“凯特，你想要做什么？ 你是个了不起的演员。我想让你自己发挥。 所以，你为什么不给我看看你想怎么演。”
51.(Laughter) What am I doing? I’m trying to buy time.
（笑） 我在做什么？
52.I’m trying to buy time.
我只是努力争取时间。
53.So the first thing about storytelling that I learned, and I follow all the time is: Panic.
所以，关于讲故事，我学到的第一点， 并且一直坚持的，就是惊恐焦虑。
54.Panic is the great access of creativity because that’s the only way to get rid of your mind.
那是创造力的伟大源泉 因为只有这样我才能摆脱“理智”。
55.Get rid of your mind.
摆脱“理智”吧。
56.Get out of it, get it out.
逃离它，忘掉它。
57.And let’s go to the universe because there’s something out there that is more truthful than your mind, that is more truthful than your universe.
去向宇宙祈求， 因为那里的一些东西 要比你的”理智“更加可信， 比你自己的”宇宙“要更加可信。
58.[unclear], you said that yesterday. I’m just repeating it because that’s what I follow constantly to find the shunyata somewhere, the emptiness.
您昨天说过。我只是重复， 因为那就是我一直所做的。 去寻找”空“。
59.Out of the emptiness comes a moment of creativity.
只有在”空“里，才能寻求到创意的瞬间。
60.So that’s what I do.
那就是我一直做的。
61.When I was a kid — I was about eight years old.
当我还是个8岁的孩子时，
62.You remember how India was. There was no pollution.
你知道那时候的印度，没有污染。
63.In Delhi, we used to live — we used to call it a chhat or the khota.
那时我们住在德里，我们当时叫它Khota。
64.Khota’s now become a bad word. It means their terrace — and we used to sleep out at night.
Khota现在变成一个不好的词了，意思是“他们的地盘” 晚上我们会睡在外面。
65.At school I was being just taught about physics, and I was told that if there is something that exists, then it is measurable.
我刚开始在学校学习物理， 我学到 如果一样东西存在， 它就是可测量的。
66.If it is not measurable, it does not exist.
如果一样东西不可测量， 它就不存在。
67.And at night I would lie out, looking at the unpolluted sky, as Delhi used to be at that time when I was a kid, and I used to stare at the universe and say,
晚上我就在德里当时纯净的夜空下躺着， 我还是个孩子， 我看着整个宇宙，说：
68.”How far does this universe go?”
”宇宙将存在多久？“
69.My father was a doctor.
我的父亲是个医生。
70.And I would think, “Daddy, how far does the universe go?”
我会问：”爸爸，宇宙将存在多久？“
71.And he said, “Son, it goes on forever.”
他回答：”永无止境。“
72.So I said, “Please measure forever because in school they’re teaching me that if I cannot measure it, it does not exist.
”那你告诉我怎么度量永久啊！ 学校的老师说 如果某东西你不能测量，它就不存在。
73.It doesn’t come into my frame of reference.”
不存在我的参照系里。”
74.So, how far does eternity go?
所以，什么是永恒？
75.What does forever mean?
永远是什么意思？
76.And I would lie there crying at night because my imagination could not touch creativity.
那些晚上，我躺着哭泣， 因为我的想象力不能触及到创造力。
77.So what did I do?
我该怎么做？
78.At that time, at the tender age of seven, I created a story.
于是在那时，在七岁那年， 我编了个故事。
79.What was my story?
不知为什么，
80.And I don’t know why, but I remember the story.
到现在我还记得那个故事。
81.There was a woodcutter who’s about to take his ax and chop a piece of wood, and the whole galaxy is one atom of that ax.
有一个伐木工 拿起他的斧子准备砍一块木头。 他的斧子很大。整个宇宙不过是其中一粒原子。
82.And when that ax hits that piece of wood, that’s when everything will destroy and the Big Bang will happen again.
当他的斧子击打到那片木头， 万事万物都消亡。 大爆炸将再次发生。
83.But all before that there was a woodcutter.
在我们的宇宙之前，只有一个伐木工。
84.And then when I would run out of that story, I would imagine that woodcutter’s universe is one atom in the ax of another woodcutter.
然后我会跳出这个故事， 去想象那个伐木工的宇宙。 它只是另一个伐木工斧子的一个原子。
85.So every time, I could tell my story again and again and get over this problem, and so I got over the problem.
所以每次，我都可以不断的讲述我的故事， 以为解决了我的问题。 所以我就这样解决了困惑。
86.How did I do it? Tell a story.
可我是怎么做到的？讲故事。
87.So what is a story?
那么，什么是故事？
88.A story is our — all of us — we are the stories we tell ourselves.
故事就是一切，是我们所有人。 我们都只是我们讲给自己的故事。
89.In this universe, and this existence, where we live with this duality of whether we exist or not and who are we, the stories we tell ourselves are the stories
在这个宇宙里，在这种存在里， 我们过着双重的生活 我们究竟存在与否？ 我们究竟是谁？ 故事，我们讲给自己的故事
90.that define the potentialities of our existence.
决定了 我们存在的可能性。
91.We are the stories we tell ourselves.
我们只是我们告诉自己的故事。
92.So that’s as wide as we look at stories.
宇宙万物也只和我们的故事一样宽广。
93.A story is the relationship that you develop between who you are, or who you potentially are, and the infinite world, and that’s our mythology.
你是谁，你能成为谁， 和我们这个无穷的宇宙的关系， 就在我们的故事里。 那就是我们的神话。
94.We tell our stories, and a person without a story does not exist.
我们讲故事。 没有故事的人是不存在的。
95.So Einstein told a story and followed his stories and came up with theories and came up with theories and then came up with his equations.
爱因斯坦讲了个故事。 在故事里他提出了他的理论， 在理论里提出了他的方程。
96.Alexander had a story that his mother used to tell him, and he went out to conquer the world.
亚历山大的母亲告诉他一个故事， 他于是征服了世界。
97.We all, everybody, has a story that they follow.
我们所有人，每一个人，都跟随着他的故事。
98.We tell ourselves stories.
我们给自己讲故事。
99.So, I will go further, and I say, “I tell a story, and therefore I exist.”
更进一步，我说 我讲故事，所以我存在。
100.I exist because there are stories, and if there are no stories, we don’t exist.
因为那些故事，所以我存在此处。 如果没有故事，那么我们都将消失。
101.We create stories to define our existence.
我们的故事决定了我们的存在。
102.If we do not create the stories, we probably go mad.
如果我们停止讲故事， 我们可能会疯掉。
103.I don’t know; I’m not sure, but that’s what I’ve done all the time.
我不知道。但我一直就是这么做的。
104.Now, a film.
现在我们讲讲电影。
105.A film tells a story.
电影讲故事。
106.I often wonder when I make a film — I’m thinking of making a film of the Buddha — and I often wonder: If Buddha had all the elements
我常常想，我在拍一部佛的电影， 我会想：如果佛拥有和导演一样的
107.that are given to a director — if he had music, if he had visuals, if he had a video camera — would we get Buddhism better?
那些器材。 他有音乐，他有特效，他有摄影机， 我们会不会有更好的佛教？
108.But that puts some kind of burden on me.
但这个成为了我的某种负担。
109.I have to tell a story in a much more elaborate way, but I have the potential.
我必须以一种更加明确的方式 来讲述这个故事。 但我看到了那种可能性。
110.It’s called subtext.
那就是“言外之意”。
111.When I first went to Hollywood, they said — I used to talk about subtext, and my agent came to me, “Would you kindly not talk about subtext?”
在我刚到好莱坞时，人们和我说—— 我当时和人们谈论“言外之意”，于是我的代理人对我说， “请不要再谈论‘言外之意’了。””
112.And I said, “Why?” He said, “Because nobody is going to give you a film if you talk about subtext.
我问：“为什么？”他说：“因为如果你再谈论它， 没有人会给你片约。
113.Just talk about plot and say how wonderful you’ll shoot the film, what the visuals will be.”
试着只去谈论情节， 谈谈你将会把电影拍得多么精彩， 或者谈谈会有什么样的视觉效果。”
114.So when I look at a film, here’s what we look for: We look for a story on the plot level, then we look for a story on the psychological level,
所以当我们看一部电影， 这些就是我们寻求的， 我们在情节得层面上看那个故事， 在心理得层面上， 看那个故事，
115.then we look for a story on the political level, then we look at a story on a mythological level.
之后我们在政治的层面上看那个故事， 在传说的层面上 看那个故事。
116.And I look for stories on each level.
我在这所有层面上寻找故事。
117.Now, it is not necessary that these stories agree with each other.
现在的状况是， 这些故事不必彼此契合。
118.What is wonderful is, at many times, the stories will contradict with each other.
在许多时候，故事之间相互矛盾， 这正是精彩之处。
119.So when I work with Rahman who’s a great musician, I often tell him, “Don’t follow what the script already says.
在我和伟大的音乐家Rahman合作时， 我常常和他说，“不要拘泥于剧本，
120.Find that which is not.
找到剧本之外的东西。
121.Find the truth for yourself, and when you find the truth for yourself, there will be a truth in it, but it may contradict the plot,
自己寻找真相。 当你找到它时， 它就会出现在你的音乐中。它有可能会和情节不符，
122.but don’t worry about it.”
但是不用担心。“
123.So, the sequel to “Elizabeth,” “Golden Age.”
所以，在《伊丽莎白》的续集《黄金时代》里，
124.When I made the sequel to “Elizabeth,” here was a story that the writer was telling: A woman who was threatened by Philip II and was going to war,
故事情节大概如此 编剧是这样写的。 一个受到菲利普二世 威胁的女人 去到战场，
125.and was going to war, fell in love with Walter Raleigh.
当她到了那里，她和雷利爵士坠入爱河。
126.Because she fell in love with Walter Raleigh, she was giving up the reasons she was a queen, and then Walter Raleigh fell in love with her lady in waiting,
因为这段爱情， 她打算放弃皇位。 但那位爵士 却爱上她的侍女。
127.and she had to decide whether she was a queen going to war or she wanted…
于是，她不得不做出选择，她是一个作战的女王， 或者她只是想要爱情。
128.Here’s the story I was telling: The gods up there, there were two people.
这一切这样出现在我的电影中。 天界诸神面前， 站立两个人，
129.There was Philip II, who was divine because he was always praying, and there was Elizabeth, who was divine, but not quite divine because she thought she was divine,
菲利普二世，希望死后进入天界 因为在世时他总是不断祈祷。 还有伊丽莎白，也想成为神， 但却不可以。虽然她自以为注定会成为神，
130.but the blood of being mortal flowed in her.
但她的体内流淌着的并不是永生的血液。
131.But the divine one was unjust, so the gods said, “OK, what we need to do is help the just one.”
可是，那位将成为神的却并不是一位正直的人， 于是诸神说道： “好吧。让我们这么干 让我们帮助那位正直的人。”
132.And so they helped the just one.
于是他们开始帮助她。
133.And what they did was, they sent Walter Raleigh down to physically separate her mortal self from her spirit self.
而他们所做的事就是让雷利爵士来到人间 去把她不朽的精神 和无法达到永生的肉体分离开来。
134.And the mortal self was the girl that Walter Raleigh was sent, and gradually he separated her so she was free to be divine.
那个不能永生“她” 就是派到雷利爵士那里的那位女侍， 渐渐的，他将她“抽离” 于是她可以成为神了。
135.And the two divine people fought, and the gods were on the side of divinity.
然后菲利普和伊丽莎白相互斗争， 众神站在伊丽莎白那边。
136.Of course, all the British press got really upset.
当然，电影放映时，英国的媒体都疯了。
137.They said, “We won the Armada.”
后来有人说：“我们赢得了无敌舰队之战。”
138.But I said, “But the storm won the Armada.
而我说：“是风暴帮助你们赢得了战争。
139.The gods sent the storm.”
而风暴是诸神派遣的。“
140.So what was I doing?
我在干什么？
141.I was trying to find a mythic reason to make the film.
我只是找一个传奇的理由 来制作一部影片。
142.Of course, when I asked Cate Blanchett, I said, “What’s the film about?”
后来我问凯特布兰彻特：”这部电影讲的是什么？“
143.She said, “The film’s about a woman coming to terms with growing older.”
她说：”它讲的是 一个女人的成长故事。”
144.Psychological.
心理层面。
145.The writer said “It’s about history, plot.”
而编剧说它是关于历史、情节。
146.I said “It’s about mythology, the gods.”
我说它是关于神话传说。 众神的故事。
147.So let me show you a film — a piece from that film — and how a camera also — so this is a scene, where in my mind, she was at the depths of mortality.
我不妨现在播放电影 ——只是一些片段—— 还有镜头是如何运转—— 这就是当时的场景，我心中的场面， 她正处在死亡的深渊。
148.She was discovering what mortality actually means, and if she is at the depths of mortality, what really happens.
她发现了死亡的含义， 一旦她处在死亡的深渊， 那么死亡真的可能降临。
149.And she’s recognizing the dangers of mortality and why she should break away from mortality.
当时的她已经看到了死亡的威胁 正因为如此她想要永生。
150.Remember, in the film, to me, both her and her lady in waiting were parts of the same body, one the mortal self and one the spirit self.
请记住，在电影中，对于我来说， 她和她的侍女一样 都只是一个人的两面 一个是会死的自我 一个是不朽的精神。
151.So can we have that second?
那么，我们可能拥有后者么？
152.(Music) Elizabeth: Bess?
（音乐） 伊丽莎白：Bess？
153.Bess?
Bess？
154.Bess Throckmorton?
Bess Throckmorton?
155.Bess: Here, my lady.
贝斯：我在这里，我的女王。
156.Elizabeth: Tell me, is it true?
伊丽莎白：请告诉我，那是真的吗？
157.Are you with child?
你怀孕了吗？
158.Are you with child?
你是不是已经怀上了爵士的孩子？
159.Bess: Yes, my lady.
贝斯：是的，我的女王。
160.Elizabeth: Traitorous.
伊丽莎白：你背叛了我。