1.Chris Anderson: Thank you so much, Prime Minister, that was both fascinating and quite inspiring.
Chris Anderson: 非常感谢您，首相先生。 刚才真是即精彩又耐人寻味。
2.So, you’re calling for a global ethic.
您在提倡一种全球伦理，
3.Would you describe that as global citizenship?
它是否象征着世界公民的身份？
4.Is that an idea that you believe in, and how would you define that?
这是一种您所认同的想法吗？ 您怎么来定义全球伦理？
5.Gordon Brown: I think it is about global citizenship. It’s about recognizing our responsibilities to others.
Gordon Brown:我认为这就是世界公民的思考， 这关系到我们对其他人的责任。
6.There is so much to do over the next few years that is obvious to so many of us to build a better world.
为了创造一个更好的世界， 在今后几年中，有太多的工作要做， 这对许多人来讲是很明显的。
7.And there is so much shared sense of what we need to do, that it is vital that we all come together.
在做这些工作中，我们的命运 息息相关。 因此，团结合作是很重要的。
8.But we don’t necessarily have the means to do so.
可是问题在于，我们目前缺乏团结合作的方法。
9.So there are challenges to be met.
所以我们就遇到了一些挑战。
10.I believe the concept of global citizenship will simply grow out of people talking to each other across continents.
我相信世界公民这一概念 会在世界不同地区人们之间交流时得以理解
11.But then, of course, the task is to create the institutions that make that global society work.
当然，到时我们的任务便是 创造一个能使国际社会更好运作的机构。
12.But I don’t think we should underestimate the extent to which massive changes in technology make possible the linking up of people across the world.
当然我认为我们不应低估 科技发展的巨大潜力。 科技发展使得全世界人们的密切联系成为可能
13.CA: But people get excited about this idea of global citizenship, but then they get confused a bit again when they start thinking about patriotism,
CA: 不过虽然说人们为世界公民这个想法感到兴奋， 大家还是会感到有点疑惑, 爱国主义与全球伦理，
14.and how to combine these two.
到底如何结合二者.
15.I mean, you’re elected as Prime Minister with a brief to bat for Britain.
我的意思是，您作为首相， 自然要为英国国家利益努力.
16.How do you reconcile the two things?
您怎样使两者达成一致？
17.GB: Well, of course national identity remains important.
GB: 不可否认，国家认同感是很重要的.
18.But it’s not at the expense of people accepting their global responsibilities.
但是这并不妨碍人们接受应有的国际责任.
19.And I think one of the problems of a recession is that people become more protectionist, they look in on themselves, they try to protect their own nation,
我认为经济衰退所带来的一个问题 是人们施行保护主义 他们只看到自己 尝试保护自己的国家
20.perhaps at the expense of other nations.
也许以其他国家为代价.
21.When you actually look at the motor of the world economy, it cannot move forward unless there is trade between the different countries.
当你真正去看世界经济的动力，就会发现， 世界经济不会前进 除非国与国之间存在贸易.
22.And any nation that would become protectionist over the next few years would deprive itself of the chance of getting the benefits of growth in the world economy.
在将来几年中，任何施行保护主义的国家， 都会剥夺自己在世界经济中 得到发展的机会.
23.So, you’ve got to have a healthy sense of patriotism; that’s absolutely important.
所以你要保持一种健康的爱国主义; 这是非常重要的.
24.But you’ve got to realize that this world has changed fundamentally, and the problems that we have cannot be solved by one nation and one nation alone.
但你也要意识到世界已经发生了根本的变化， 我们遇到的问题不能由 一个国家单独解决.
25.CA: Well, indeed. But what do you do when the two come into conflict and you’re forced to make a decision that either is in Britain’s interest,
CA:是的，没错. 但是您会怎样做 如果您遇到矛盾的选择并且必须作出决定？ 一个选择迎合英国的利益，
26.or the interest of Britons, or citizens elsewhere in the world?
或者说英国人的利益， 而另一选择是为了其他国家公民的利益？
27.GB: Well I think we can persuade people that what is necessary for Britain’s long-term interests, what is necessary for America’s long-term interests,
我认为我们可以说服人们 为了英国的长远利益， 为了美国的长远利益，
28.is proper engagement with the rest of the world, and taking the action that is necessary.
必须要恰当地融入到世界中去， 并采取必要的措施.
29.There is a great story, again, told about Richard Nixon.
有一个很棒的关于理查德.尼克松的故事.
30.1958, Ghana becomes independent, so it is just over 50 years ago, Richard Nixon goes to represent the United States government at the celebrations for independence in Ghana.
1958年加纳独立， 在50多年前， 理查德.尼克松代表美国政府 参加在加纳举行的独立庆典.
31.And it’s one of his first outings as vice president to an African country.
这是他作为美国副总统首次访问一个非洲国家.
32.He doesn’t quite know what to do, so he starts going around the crowd and starts talking to people in the crowd and he says to people in this rather unique way,
他还不知道该怎样做，于是他就在当地走， 开始和人们讲话 他问了一个独特的问题，
33.”How does it feel to be free?”
“获得自由是什么感觉？”
34.And he’s going around, “How does it feel to be free?”
他四下询问：“获得自由是什么感觉？”
35.”How does it feel to be free?”
“获得自由是什么感觉？”
36.And then someone says, “How should I know? I come from Alabama.”
然后有人回答：“我怎么知道？我是亚拉巴马州来的。”
37.(Laughter) And that was the 1950s.
(笑声) 当时是50年代.
38.Now, what is remarkable is that civil rights in America were achieved in the 1960s.
值得注意的是 美国的民权运动是在1960年代实现其目标的。
39.But what is equally remarkable is socioeconomic rights in Africa have not moved forward very fast even since the age of colonialism.
同样值得注意的 是非洲的社会经济权利 并没有得到很快的发展 从殖民主义的时代便是如此.
40.And yet, America and Africa have got a common interest.
但是，美国与非洲 有着共同的利益
41.And we have got to realize that if we don’t link up with those people who are sensible voices and democratic voices in Africa, to work together for common causes,
我们要意识到如果我们没有听到 非洲那些理智与民主的呼声， 并与他们为共同目标协力工作，
42.then the danger of Al Qaeda and related groups making progress in Africa is very big.
那么”基地”组织和其他恐怖组织 在非洲进展的威胁就会很大.
43.So, I would say that what seems sometimes to be altruism, in relation to Africa, or in relation to developing countries, is more than that, it is enlightened self-interest
所以，在我看来一些表面上看似是 对非洲和其他发展中国家的 慈善行为， 其目的更大于此，与其他国际合作
44.for us to work with other countries.
也符合我们的自身利益.
45.And I would say that national interest and, if you like, what is the global interest to tackle poverty and climate change do, in the long run, come together.
在我看来，国家利益 或者说国际利益 在处理贫困和气候问题上 从长远来看是相吻合的.
46.And whatever the short-run price for taking action on climate change or taking action on security, or taking action to provide opportunities
不管短期里在处理环境问题和气候问题上要付出什么代价 或者说在保证安全问题上，
47.for people for education, these are prices that are worth paying so that you build a stronger global society where people feel able to feel comfortable with each other
在教育机会问题上， 这些代价都是值得的 因为我们要建立一个更完善的全球社会 在这之中，人们共处时觉得完全轻松自在
48.and are able to communicate with each other in such a way that you can actually build stronger links between different countries.
大家可以互相交流 并在国家之间建立起更紧密的联系.
49.CA: We’re in Oxford, which is the home of philosophical thought experiments.
CA: 我们现在在牛津，这里是 许多哲学思想试验的产生地.
50.And so here is one that kind of goes — I still just want to draw out on this issue.
我这里有一个情境—— 我还是想提到这个问题.
51.So, you’re on vacation at a nice beach, And word comes through that there’s been a massive earthquake and that there is a tsunami advancing on the beach.
假如说你在一个美丽的海滩度假， 你得到了消息，有强烈地震发生了 海啸正朝海岸袭来.
52.One end of the beach there is a house containing a family of five Nigerians.
在海滩的一头有一间屋子 里面有5个尼日利亚人
53.And at the other end of the beach there is a single Brit.
在海滩的另一头 有1个英国人
54.You have time to — (Laughter) You have time to alert one house. What do you do?
你有时间– (笑声) 你有时间去通知一间屋子的人. 你会怎样做？
55.(Laughter) GB: Modern communications.
(笑声) GB:现代通讯设备.
56.(Applause) Alert both.
(掌声) 通知两组人。
57.(Applause) I do agree that my responsibility is first of all to make sure that people in our country are safe.
(掌声) 我同意我的责任 是首先保证我们国家人民的安全.
58.And I wouldn’t like anything that is said today to suggest that I am diminishing the importance of the responsibility that each individual leader has for their own country.
我不希望今天说的任何话映射到 我在削减这一责任的重要性的意思 这是每个领袖对自己国家的责任.
59.But I’m trying to suggest that there is a huge opportunity open to us that was never open to us before.
相反，我想阐明的是，我们面对着一种良机 一种前所未有的机遇.
60.But the power to communicate across borders allows us to organize the world in a different way.
这是一种跨越国界交流的能力 这能让我们以另一种方式，使世界更加井然有序.
61.And I think, look at the tsunami, it’s a classic example.
而且，我认为，看看海啸的例子，这是个很好的例子.
62.Where was the early warning systems?
预先警报系统哪里去了？
63.You know? Where was the world acting together to deal with the problems that they knew arose from the potential for earthquakes, as well as the potential for climate change?
对吧？世界的共同合作 来应对以前发生过的问题 比如潜在的地震威胁， 还有气候变化的威胁到哪里去了？
64.And when the world starts to work together, with better early warning systems, then you can deal with some of these problems in a far better way.
当世界各国开始合作以后， 在运用更好的预先警报系统后， 你可以更好的解决这些问题.
65.I just think we’re not seeing, at the moment, the huge opportunities open to us by the ability of people to cooperate in a world where either there was isolationism before
我认为在当前，我们还没有意识到 这些由人们的合作能力 所产生的机遇. 在世界上以前曾经有过孤立主义
66.or there was limited alliances based on convenience which never actually took you to deal with some of the central problems.
以前出于便利考虑世界上的联盟合作很有限 这些都不能解决我们面对的一些主要问题.
67.CA: But I think this is the frustration that perhaps a lot people have, like people in the audience here, where we love the kind of language that you’re talking about.
CA:但是也许许多人都面临着一种压抑感 就像这里的很多观众一样， 我们很欣赏您用的这些措辞
68.It is inspiring. A lot of us believe that that has to be the world’s future.
这些话很振奋人心。许多人都相信 这应该就是世界的未来.
69.And yet, when the situation changes, you suddenly hear politicians talking as if, you know, for example, the life of one American soldier
但当形势改变的时候， 你突然听到政治家们谈论，就好像 你知道，比如说，一个美国士兵的性命
70.is worth countless numbers of Iraqi civilians.
等同于无数伊拉克平民的性命.
71.When the pedal hits the metal, the idealism can get moved away.
当形势所逼的时候， 理想主义就会消退.
72.I’m just wondering how — whether you can see that changing over time, whether you see in Britain that there are changing attitudes, and that people are actually
我只是想知道– 您是否看的到随着随着时间推移所产生的变化， 您是否看到在英国本土 人们的态度改变了，事实上大家变得
73.more supportive of the kind of global ethic that you talk about.
更加支持您所说的这种全球伦理观念
74.GB: I think every religion, every faith, and I’m not just talking here to people of faith or religion — it has this global ethic at the center
GB:我认为每一种宗教，每一种信仰， 我指的不仅仅是有宗教信仰的人士– 都将全球伦理视为其信条的
75.of its credo.
核心.
76.And whether it’s Jewish or whether it’s Muslim or whether it’s Hindu, or whether it’s Sikh, the same global ethic is at the heart of each of these religions.
不管是犹太教徒还是回教徒 是印度教徒还是锡克教徒， 同样的全球伦理观念 是每一个宗教的的核心.
77.So, I think you’re dealing with something that people instinctively see as part of that moral sense.
所以说，你在同一种 人们凭直觉 认同为是道德感的一部分的思想打交道.
78.So you’re building on something that is not pure self-interest.
因此说这种思想并非仅仅建立在个人利益之上.
79.You’re building on people’s ideas and values — that perhaps they’re candles that burn very dimly on certain occasions.
你在加强人们的思想和价值观– 也许在特定情况下 人们希望的烛火会变的暗淡.
80.But it is a set of values that cannot, in my view, be extinguished.
但是这是一种价值观，在我看来，永不会被熄灭.
81.Then the question is, how do you make that change happen?
问题就是， 你怎样促使这种变革的发生？
82.How do you persuade people that it is in their interest to build strong … After the Second World War, we built institutions, the United Nations,
你怎样说服人们 为了他们自己的利益， 应该建立强大的…在第二次世界大战后， 我们建立了一些机构，比如联合国，
83.the IMF, the World Bank, the World Trade Organization, the Marshall Plan.
国际货币基金组织，世界银行， 世贸组织,马歇尔计划.
84.There was a period in which people talked about an act of creation, because these institutions were so new.
有一段时间人们谈论过这一创造的举动， 因为当时这些机构刚刚建立.
85.But they are now out of date. They don’t deal with the problems.
但是它们现在过时了. 它们不能解决问题.
86.As I said, you can’t deal with the environmental problem through existing institutions.
像我说的那样，现有的国际机构 不能处理环境问题.
87.You can’t deal with the security problem in the way that you need to.
你不能以合适的方式解决安全问题.
88.You can’t deal with the economic and financial problem.
你不能解决经济和金融问题.
89.So we have got to rebuild our global institutions, build them in a way that is suitable to the challenges of this time.
所以我们要重建我们的国际机构， 使得它们能够合适地应对当前的挑战.
90.And I believe that if you look at the biggest challenge we face, it is to persuade people to have the confidence that we can build a truly global society
并且我认为当前我们面临的最大挑战， 就是让人们获得足够的信心 相信我们可以建立一个真正意义上的国际社会
91.with the institutions that are founded on these rules.
拥有基于这些准则的国际机构.
92.So, I come back to my initial point.
这又回到了我开始提出的观点.
93.Sometimes you think things are impossible.
有时候你认为有些事情不可能完成.
94.Nobody would have said 50 years ago that apartheid would have gone in 1990, or that the Berlin wall would have fallen at the turn of the ’80s and ’90s,
50年前没有人会认为 种族隔离会在1990年不复存在， 或着说柏林墙 会在80年代末90年代初倒下
95.or that polio could be eradicated, or that perhaps 60 years ago nobody would have said that a man could have gone to the moon.
或者说小儿麻痹症会被根除，或者说大概60年前 没人会认为人类会登月成功.
96.All these things have happened.
可是所有这些都发生了.
97.By tackling the impossible, you make the impossible possible.
通过处理不可能的事情，不可能变成了可能.
98.CA: And we have had a speaker who said that very thing, and swallowed a sword right after that. Which was quite dramatic.
CA:我们有过一个演讲者他也说了这样的话， 之后他马上吞下了一把剑. 这太猛了.
99.(Laughter) GB: Followed my sword will swallow.
(笑声) GB:下面我也要吞剑了.
100.CA: But, surely a true global ethic is for someone to say, “I believe the life of every human on the planet is worth the same, equal consideration,
CA:但是，一个人要相信真正意义上的全球伦理 他一定会说， ”我相信地球上人人平等 人们应该被平等对待，
101.regardless of nationality and religion.”
不论国籍和宗教.”
102.And you have politicians who have — You’re elected. In a way, you can’t say that.
但是政治家是都是– 您是被选举产生的. 因此在某种程度上，你不能说那样的话.
103.Even if, as a human being, you believe that you can’t say that, you’re elected for Britain’s interests.
即使从自身来讲您相信这些， 您还是不能这样说，因为您被选举代表英国的利益.
104.GB: We have a responsibility to protect.
GB: 我们有保护的责任.
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